A Rational Fear

Boring Budget Special — Wendy Zukerman, Chris Taylor, Dan Ilic, Lewis Hobba + Dan Adams CEO Amber

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🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear
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🐬 A Rational Fear is supported in part by Australian Ethical

Recorded IN PERSON around Lewis' kitchen table. Fearmongers this week are Chris Taylor, Dan Ilic, Lewis Hobba, Dan Adams CEO of Amber, AND WENDY ZUKERMAN from the podcast Science Vs.

She's back in Australia — we're lucky to have her!

There's a different energy to the in person podcasts that's for sure.

We cover —

Covid and cruise lines.
Climate Protests.
Money coming back to the ABC in the budget.
Energy price shocks with the CEO of Amber, Dan Adams.

Thanks for listening,

Chip into the Patreon if you can!

Dan Ilic 0:00
This podcast is supported in part by Australian ethical. Hello. Hello Hi. Oh,

it's exciting, Louis Hello Daniel. How are you? I'm great. We're at your house around your kitchen table Welcome

Lewis Hobba 0:11
Welcome to the mansion. This is the bottom of 16 story

Dan Ilic 0:18
wow that ABC grant has really kicked in early

Lewis Hobba 0:21
actually just leave out the ABC I

Dan Ilic 0:25
want to say a big thank you to our new Patreon supporter Andrew car this week we gained a Patreon supporter but last 12 I don't know what happened. Churn if a lot of rip but a big thank you to Australia ethical who has jumped on board once again as our sponsor for the next nine weeks Thank you Australian eCycle

Chris Taylor 0:42
what you couldn't get Hancock big dollar from the ethics community really kicked in.

Dan Ilic 0:51
Soon all of the previous 10 years of irrational fears are going to be heading to the Patreon only or Apple subscriptions oh you know the old episodes from this you're going to be kicking around but you know, the previous nine

Lewis Hobba 1:03
are you going to put up the one where you're in blackface? Because hey, years

Dan Ilic 1:09
Yes, yes, thank you to all those who are can imagine what it would be like to have like face on a podcast that's going behind the paywall, but there is going to be some serious cutting edge comedy from 2013. If you want you're gonna have to pay. Yeah, so remember that we had some good Kevin Rudd jokes. Chris Taylor had some good Superleague jokes. So

Chris Taylor 1:30
yeah, I was doing I had a very tight two minutes.

Lewis Hobba 1:33
Well, you're talking about Superleague again. Today

Dan Ilic 1:37
we're recording this on Gadigal Land of the Euro nation's sovereignty was never seen it we need a treaty. Let's start the show.

Simon Chilvers 1:43
A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra, fed gum, and section 40 of our rational view recommended listening by immature audience.

Dan Ilic 1:56
Tonight after being dumped by editors for making anti semitic comments Kanye West announces a new line of ugly sandals in collaboration with Hugo Boss and Elon Musk will finally take the case to Twitter promising the long awaited features that users have been demanding, such as the ability to read Donald Trump's tweets, and the ABC loses the television rights of Dr. Hodor. Disney plus the underfunded public broadcaster has commissioned a new series to make up for the loss of Dr. Who called in turn where did you lose? Yeah, yeah, it was it was really good in my head.

Chris Taylor 2:38
As you were reading ahead, and we're like, Oh, I've been just on that story. I mean, it's been devastating is but the good news is ABC has maintained the rights to Whovians. But they have gone on to the goal.

Dan Ilic 2:51
It is the 27th of October and this is the podcast with fewer manners than James Corden. This is a rational, rational.

Dan Adams 2:58
Half of you are excited.

Dan Ilic 3:10
Wasn't a rational fear on your host former cast member of friends Dan Ilic. And this is the podcast that takes the news and adds a bit of ice magic. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. He's been avoiding the news for to make his comedy of late preferring to kind of foist stories from his own head upon the unsuspecting public. It's comedy writer Chris Taylor. Welcome, Chris. It's

Chris Taylor 3:28
great to be back on the podcast. Thank

Dan Ilic 3:29
you. It has the world of fiction treating you.

Chris Taylor 3:33
It's almost as fictional as real world politics. It's very paradoxical. You retreat from you know, having done all like topical satirical news based comedy for years. You think, you know, that's got a shelf life, I'm going to retreat to the world of fiction. And it's really more real in the fictional world than it is in the news world.

Dan Ilic 3:52
Yeah. And we thought Australia has lost her forever to the hustle and bustle of New York City. But she's now returned to our boring shores. It's podcaster. Wendy Zukerman. Welcome, Wendy. Thanks for having me. Oh, why are you coming back to Australia?

Wendy Zukerman 4:05
Ah, well, the ratio of kangaroos to guns was just let me check more kangaroos.

Dan Ilic 4:17
And he may have his own TV show on the ABC but he's not above allowing us to sit in his kitchen to record our little podcast. It's TV. It's Louis Oba.

Lewis Hobba 4:26
That's right. Yes. This is the last podcast I'll be doing. I've come to say goodbye to the silver screen. After the glimmering lights of one episode of television.

Dan Ilic 4:37
When this goes to air that's tonight.

Lewis Hobba 4:40
Yeah, tonight 8:30pm on ABC plus.

Chris Taylor 4:45
All right, Ken, that's genius. Because you know that there's so much scrutiny of TV especially ABC at the moment like I think you know, the Frank Kelly show, frankly was gone. Oh, I'd only give that three episodes. Your Genius is to only promise one and get out there'll be no Twitter demands for less of this you're delivering the least possible Yeah

Lewis Hobba 5:04
Chris

Dan Ilic 5:06
you've had many TV shows of your own like Do you have any advice for Louis with his one episode

Chris Taylor 5:12
don't read the tweets

Lewis Hobba 5:14
and it's not it's not like it was when because Dan and I were on television you are on well obviously you were on for a long time before we were and then when we weren't hungry base Twitter was that was toxic peak I think. I don't actually think it's that bad for television anymore.

Chris Taylor 5:28
No, because there's no viewers anymore. I actually have done shows recently named the reason I knew they weren't going well wasn't because there was an avalanche of sort of negative tweets. It was just no one was complaining. Like so bad that people it was almost like kicking a dog when it's already dead. Even even the world of Twitter thought nobody just crawled to tweet about this

Wendy Zukerman 5:51
so depressed right?

Lewis Hobba 5:55
It was worse than Emily inherit.

Dan Ilic 6:00
Coming up later, with energy prices set to explode. We talked with Amber's ceo dan Adams about what else we can burn to keep the aircon on this summer. But first a message from this week's sponsor.

Simon Chilvers 6:09
My Mama Mama, mama, mama, mama,

Robbie McGreggor 6:11
we're here we are. Let's increase some interest rates.

Unknown Speaker 6:15
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Robbie McGreggor 6:32
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Unknown Speaker 6:43
to the ins and outs of making more taxpayers

Robbie McGreggor 6:47
more Australians will be able to afford to make more babies than ever before? It's all about participation and product tivity if

Unknown Speaker 6:59
you know what I mean, you're having a place to live but Help

Robbie McGreggor 7:03
to Buy scheme allows up to 40,000 eligible Australians to own their own home with a lower deposit and smaller mortgage. Oh, yes, smaller mortgage. Size does matter. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 7:21
Robbie McGregor reads the 2022 budget only on Audible subscribe now and get a bonus episode of Robbie saying the words fiscal stimulus for 45 minutes straight

Robbie McGreggor 7:32
fiscal stimulus, fiscal stimulus, fiscal stimulus? Yes. Stimulus fisting.

Dan Ilic 7:50
Now I promise you that the last time we'll do that joke I

Lewis Hobba 7:54
absolutely don't believe it as it was coming to the fiscal stimulus that I'm like, this is an old skit. Doing what he does best recite this week's

Dan Ilic 8:04
first fib now before we jump into the first fear, I just want to play a little game of word association. I'll say something and you folks jump in with the first thing that comes to mind when I say the words when I say the word cruise liner,

Unknown Speaker 8:18
oh Castro close is

Lewis Hobba 8:21
good murder.

Dan Ilic 8:22
Also very good. Boom

Lewis Hobba 8:24
is fantastic shuffleboard points

Dan Ilic 8:31
yes cruise line is vehicles built to the exact specifications to help boomers get COVID and also wealth redistribution if that's what you want to call it. There's a cruise line of going up down the West Coast of Australia surprise surprise crew and passengers have a princess

Chris Taylor 8:45
pathogen I think

Lewis Hobba 8:48
I did have I did have the COVID princess but you know that's so obvious. You just get it next to the mashed potatoes in the buffet. Like there's just a COVID skirt.

Dan Ilic 9:02
It's docked in groom and it's gonna it's gonna be docking up and down the west coast of Western Australia. Sure. Well, that's

Chris Taylor 9:07
good because they they sort of missed out on they were the one state thanks to Matt McGowan's you know quite officious border closures that never really got to enjoy the you know the party that was COVID so thank God the piano cruise company is bringing it

Lewis Hobba 9:22
down that we're going to do stop the boats fine I really keep Perth in the 10 years behind to get

Chris Taylor 9:30
the Payton the couple of opinion from Tacoma. Like what's going on? Lyft did he keep his little trophy

Lewis Hobba 9:35
would be could be stopped the ships like just enough of a copyright difference? Yeah.

Dan Ilic 9:41
Wendy, I got a question for you regarding it's like, have we learned about COVID and cruise lines like what's going on?

Wendy Zukerman 9:49
I mean, if you could create a perfect sport, like if you were COVID You just be like fuck yes. I've got it.

Chris Taylor 9:57
My markets behind cruise ships. Peace of peace.

Wendy Zukerman 10:01
Right? And there's so many people that was 2000 people.

Dan Ilic 10:03
This would be like a 32nd episode of Science first it would have been like,

Wendy Zukerman 10:06
Should you go on a cruise ship? But my favorite I did, I did write a list of all the my favorite names of all the cruise ships that had had gotten COVID Over the last few years. Because it was a joy. I have to say early COVID reporting as ever like it was it was so scary at the beginning. And then just hearing like, the Diamond Princess has, you know, and it was just like, it was like this like I couldn't help but it warms your heart. But again, it's so damn predictable. Remember Grand Princess Ruby Princess world dream, carnival valor silver Vala. Norwegian Breakaway pride of America just this week as well. In New Zealand. They just had an outbreak on one of their cruise ships, which was called Ovation of the sea. Favorite my favorite of all the cruise ship lives this isn't even this the other half of the

Dan Ilic 10:53
ocean is so deliciously close to Omicron

Lewis Hobba 10:57
standing ovation it's more of a wind down or respiratory.

Wendy Zukerman 11:03
But then, when it hit Greg motiva

Chris Taylor 11:06
Oh, Greg water was the name of the

Wendy Zukerman 11:09
recruits you which is you know, like it was, it was a fella

Chris Taylor 11:13
went off to work that day. Normally, the ICO was that you could play a game between guests guests. Is it a drag queen or a cruise ship? Crystal harmony, all that kind of thing. But Greg Morton from Pymble.

Dan Ilic 11:28
I love this story. In the on the ABC website, it said Princess Cruises said that the COVID 19 outbreak was being managed effectively how what's how much confidence does it give you? When a cruise company says honor, the outbreak has been managed effectively? Wow.

Lewis Hobba 11:44
I mean, it is one of those things where at this point is it is kind of self selecting you know, at the start, we were like, hey, look, we should all stay home and protect each other from COVID. At this point, if you're going on a cruise, I'm not gonna say maybe you should die. But it is kind of like you are putting yourself but you're putting your life in God's hands.

Dan Ilic 12:01
Or if you are a millennial trying to break into the housing market send your parents on a cruise.

Chris Taylor 12:06
Like when like, you know what, most of us are vaccinated. Now, if you're like on triple, quadruple vaccine, could I go on a cruise with any confidence or even if you quad Vax, you've still step onboard anything called Princess, you're still gonna get

Wendy Zukerman 12:22
I think Greg Mortimer but, you know, with the new variants, you remember the percentages we had, but I don't I don't think so. I shouldn't say even though cruises are way funnier than when you know someone walks off a Boeing 747 on the qf whatever. Actually, your chance of getting COVID is higher on a cruise ship because there's just more people on a cruise. The chances

Chris Taylor 12:45
of getting anything on a cruise ship is

let's be more reassured, you know, they've always got like entertainment on cruise. It's normally ugly, Dave Gray, but if Norman Swan was the entertainment, and you just sort of got the lectures about how bad then I might be tempted to go on and feel a bit safer if he was the comic each night.

Dan Ilic 13:11
Yeah, brim council said that the 1900 passengers is going to spend about $190,000 in brooms so they're quite cool with it at the hospital. Well, I assume that that's about $100 per person that's like buying a coffee in Western Australia. But is it kind of worth it? Do you think the idea is worth it to the economy to have all these infected people come to your little town? And I think

Wendy Zukerman 13:33
right I think we've just decided we're just gonna let it run is just so much more fun to make.

Chris Taylor 13:40
Someone think of the camels. I think the population of room is mostly camels these days. Now that was another interesting I keep looking at Wendy for checking that animals just didn't get it.

Wendy Zukerman 13:56
Know what the Minks remember there was this there was a mink outbreak.

Lewis Hobba 13:59
Yeah, zoos, gorillas and lions were getting.

Wendy Zukerman 14:04
What country was it that like? Did like killed a bunch of minks in fear that are made against Russia? No, it was like, um, I want to say someone's Scandinavian and then they were like, oh, sorry.

Lewis Hobba 14:18
Lovely coats going around.

Chris Taylor 14:21
Reduced it's got COVID but it's reduced.

Robbie McGreggor 14:24
Sue's rational fear

Chris Taylor 14:27
Denmark has announced it will eliminate the country's entire population of farmed makes more than 15 million will be called

Robbie McGreggor 14:35
who you are listening to a very rational fear.

Dan Ilic 14:41
This week second fear mashed potatoes. You know, some may lament that humans have systematically removed 70% of all animal life on Earth since the 70s, whereas others may complain that climate activists have plastic yet another artwork with common kitchen stuffs. Climate protesters Germany have thrown running mashed potato over a Manet worth 100 and and $10 million in what seems to be the latest in the string of copycat protests. Chris, is this an effective form of protest? You think? Well, we're

Chris Taylor 15:09
not we're talking about it. But I don't know about I don't know about you, I tend to sort of take in the fact that throwing food and they're throwing it at art, and I forget what they're actually protest. I mean, there's a lot of it, though, did sort of, you know,

Wendy Zukerman 15:22
make you go why? And then you looked it up. And then you were like, climate change.

Chris Taylor 15:27
This is a classic one, almost like all protests of late, I think at the extreme end, where you're sympathetic with the cause and you're little bit puzzled by the execution. So yeah, just to recap, there was one in Melbourne, I think was a Picasso then they did the sunflowers with soup. And as you said, down they didn't Manet with mashed potatoes. They also someone threw spaghetti to Jackson Pollock and no one can cook it is sort of it's bizarre logic. Or you might say it's impeccable logic because if you want to express anger at oil companies, then is the obvious target 19th century artists painting such evil toxic problematic things as water lilies and flower you know, they're also we need to protect the planet. So let's

Lewis Hobba 16:17
just type was typing in oil companies into Google, and it just auto finished oil paintings. All day.

Dan Ilic 16:26
It was a great protest last week, where two people took in cream pies and smash the faces of a wax statue of King Charles and Queen Consort Camilla at Madame Tussauds, and I thought that was pretty good. Yeah, that's comedy.

Chris Taylor 16:40
But yeah, if you want to, like if you want to protest oil, you don't throw food at the car. So you throw food at Picasso's car. Surely isn't that the thing? Like it seems to be just I

Wendy Zukerman 16:51
I love it. I'm so into this. I mean, I think we're talking about it. I think the guys who did it, they were like, look, we tried to have direct action. And they did try and block some actual, like, oil distribution in the UK, and no one reported on it. And then they're like, let's just throw some shit at art and all of a sudden look we're talking about Yeah.

Chris Taylor 17:12
Look, we've all been to these galleries. There's you know, those people who just sit there and there's more of them than you need. There's like Nico, what's the job? Nothing ever exciting. What happened? How on earth have people judging in with bagfuls of Woolies groceries pass those guys on the chair? Does something not go off in their head like a light bulb? Because oh the person carrying soup might not be here for the other part of these protests always once the food's been distributed is the glowing they all glue their hands to the work now not to the to the well, you know, if you lose yourself to a Kindle it would probably increase its value but but then the glowing beside it. And that's okay. I don't mind it's sort of interesting but I did see this week that Spencer tunic is coming back to Sydney our he's the guy that photographs a lot of nude people in front of the Opera House. I think this time it's Bondi Beach now, I'm not going to sign up to a Spencer tunic art exhibit if I think there's any possibility whatsoever some oil protesters are gonna glue themselves to my scrotum.

Lewis Hobba 18:21
actually incentivize me to go

Dan Ilic 18:30
that's fantastic. You might actually be in the in the disclaim you've got a sign. You may.

Lewis Hobba 18:38
Best part about it. I think the reason it's good is like when they were like chaining themselves to roads. They were like, Oh, you just slow down my trip to work. And Pete like people are like, Well, I'm just I'm not an oil executive. I'm just a guy who's driving to work. And even though I think that that is more logical, it was kind of more annoying to people who weren't really at fault. Yes. Whereas with this you like whereas fucking

Chris Taylor 19:01
Manet? Yeah.

Dan Ilic 19:06
I don't think this harms anyone because often the paintings aren't harmed. The paintings aren't harmed, it gets a lot of attention. And it makes things exciting. If you're just a person at the gallery and you're filming this as it happens. That's a lot of clicks via social media. That's fantastic,

Chris Taylor 19:21
too. It's like you've been to these galleries in Europe, or anywhere where there's these masterpieces. The sightlines are bad enough just read to you can't see the Mona Lisa or the Waterlase because there's always Americans with their selfie sticks. If you then on top of every tourist got oil protesters gluing themselves to the word your sight lines are shit.

Wendy Zukerman 19:44
I love this quote from one of them though, just like there really because I did. I did have so many thoughts crisp but then they were like,

Unknown Speaker 19:50
researched the topic.

Wendy Zukerman 19:54
For more than 30 seconds. They said one of the protesters said are you more concerned about the protection of a painting or the protection of our planet, and I love that I was like, yeah, these water lilies

Lewis Hobba 20:07
are gonna be like, Well do you care more about

Dan Ilic 20:14
like Van Gogh. Van Gogh's did Matisse is dead Picasso is dead. If they damaged a band quilty, I'd be pretty upset.

Chris Taylor 20:22
I'd like to see the artists get revenge. Like not not that not the dead ones obviously. But let's say let's say like I'd like to select slug to car to start throwing paint at food. People walking into rock pool with two tins of juleps and painted at the wagyu in Paris Match.

Lewis Hobba 20:45
This is the OPEC at least you know like beef production actually does cause a lot of effect. So if you're throwing

Chris Taylor 20:55
me over there a logic irrational fear you've been lied to the real danger is not global warming. It's global warming panic the scare mongering, it seems to me that global warming fear mongering seems the literally driving people while dragging them to bully the rest of us.

Dan Ilic 21:14
This way, it's the fear in what was regarded as a very staid and boring budget. There's something very exciting for people who work in media, particularly around this table. The budget is brought back money to the ABC $150 million is coming back this year. Most of all will be spent on Louis's moustache grooming,

Lewis Hobba 21:30
or the 15 levels of my house. That's right. Yeah, about this one,

Dan Ilic 21:33
given nearly 600 million was cut from the ABC over the last eight years. It's a welcome reprieve. $500,000 of that budget will be used to get Gen X radio station Double J on the FM frequency. Chris, you are rapidly aging into the demographic of people who watch the ABC. Is this a good use of fun?

Chris Taylor 21:55
Look, it's an interesting use of funds. It's first of all, I love the budget. It's Accountancy is not have nots. It should be awake. It should be like strict across the shedule. I'd watch it sooner than the trade is

Lewis Hobba 22:08
fine. Yeah, totally.

Chris Taylor 22:12
Any money to the public broadcaster is very welcome the specific $500,000 for Double J puzzles me because of all the things at the ABC. And I think we've all worked their positions over the of all the areas you could help the IBC like more money for a new panel show that's not hosted by Glanusk cash incentives to make Australians watch q&a again. Maybe some basic charisma training for Michael Roland. These are areas I would have prioritized but where did they go? money to help expand Double J into regional Australia and if there's one thing we all know regional Australia has been crying out for its better access to John Butler and the wetland. Farmers are hurting the people are demanding more Wilco feeds around them.

Dan Ilic 22:58
I mean, $500,000 isn't a lot for broadcast transmission. I worked at a radio station as a board member and it's out for community radio stations. It's about $100,000 a year. But

Chris Taylor 23:09
this is what cracks me up the money's specifically it's the money is going on a feasibility study to see if Double J can transfer to the FM band. Just to be clear, they're not going to the FM band itself the way to the 2028 budget for that. They're just spending money to see if it's feasible to go to FM so they're currently digital

Dan Ilic 23:29
that money is just going to another government department KPMG

Chris Taylor 23:33
Double J is currently digital they want to upgrade to analog now that's like someone on Tik Tok wanting to upgrade to MySpace like someone driving a Tesla guy no upgrade to a penny van turns out apparently digital radio wasn't the future that everyone forecasts like aside from I think is a chemist warehouse install radio out right today FM. But other than that, like digital radio has been a bit of fast so they are looking at the new technology of FFM. Yeah, we shouldn't be surprised by this. Because this is elbow and elbow throwing money at Double J and alternative old person music is basically our bones whole theme. That's his pet.

Dan Ilic 24:18
He's looking for a lunchtime show.

Chris Taylor 24:22
He's audition, giving grants to double Jays like scomo giving special grants to hillside interest is very much a play and the only thing like because I still trying to get a grip on his prime ministership, he seems like he's mostly out of the country all the time. The only time he's in the country. He's basically at midnight oil geeks are in the mosh pit at the end while watching Alex Lloyd so you said the double Jays on his on his radar. And I guess we should just be thankful that it is Double J and those sorts of bands he's giving money to because of a was the previous guy. It'd just be giving money to April sun in Cuba. But

Dan Ilic 25:05
I don't know if you caught any of the budget coverage, but this is how the today's show started and ended their conversation with the treasurer Jim Shammas. So I've got the ins and the outs. Yeah, they put me on after Matthew McConaughey.

Unknown Speaker 25:21
To see what I've got for you at the end of this interview, then you'll feel it. Hey, And just lastly, to prove that you are a far more interesting interview than Matthew McConaughey. He can do this let me just show you and now that I'm seeing it who columns

Dan Ilic 25:46
Yeah, so this he came on straight after Matthew McConaughey. And then at the end of the conversation, they played a Matthew McConaughey clip of him stripping Jimson Shammas just didn't know anything of what was going on

Chris Taylor 26:00
televisions dumbing down

Wendy Zukerman 26:04
I mean, never thought that there was any government but like this budget I mean, I usually don't get my ovulation doesn't spark up for any old budget. This one hasn't really this one has some really exciting things in it and then just having to contend with this for Double J Magic Mike, you know, it's exciting thing.

Dan Ilic 26:30
What are you excited about windy.

Wendy Zukerman 26:32
I think like a lot of the climate change the moving towards like electric vehicles. You can complain, obviously, what bore but it showed like direction, you know, for the first time and so long, it's like, you can see a future where we're gonna have more electric vehicles, which we did, which was really exciting. And there's some really clever stuff about like, carbon capture where they didn't just say this is bullshit, because it's super political. But instead they were like, look, this may have a place but we're just not going to put it on the fucking pedestal that Liberal Party did. But like we're not going to just like throw it down the dumpster.

Dan Ilic 27:02
I really liked that because they were like, no, sorry, Chevron, we're gonna put any more money in your plant. But here's some things we do think about which is cement and other really hard to abate them right, like cruises. And yeah, the NRMA is going to be building like a supercharger network thanks to thanks to this budget, which is amazing.

Chris Taylor 27:20
That's all quite interesting. But did you see the Matthew McConaughey?

Dan Ilic 27:30
Before we get to this week's interview next month is is the Victorian State election. Now the Liberal Party is strongest in Victoria amongst boomers and older voters while millennial vote for the Liberal Party has dropped to about 10 to 25% which is kind of surprising because Victorian lives have been doing some really great work on tick tock like this bit of gold here from reward. Liberal candidate Cynthia Watson.

Unknown Speaker 27:53
I'm so nervous Victoria. It's about time we got rid of this corrupt state Labour Government. Remember this November

Dan Ilic 28:04
I'll play for you again.

Unknown Speaker 28:07
It's about time we got rid of this corrupt state labor government. Remember this November?

Lewis Hobba 28:12
Oh, I see. It's about damn time. She says

Dan Ilic 28:17
yes, Elisa reference, really into it. It's very exciting.

Wendy Zukerman 28:21
Do you think they practice the clap?

Lewis Hobba 28:24
Do you think they know about her song everyone's gay? The liberal party as well.

Dan Ilic 28:31
When we come back which superyacht should OPEC executives buy during this once in a generation energy crisis? Lewis I'm just pausing the podcast briefly to let you know some good news. I know you're having a baby. I know that there's a lot of pressures at the ABC. But thankfully, you no longer have to dip into your pocket to pay for this podcast.

Lewis Hobba 28:49
What Why? Why

Dan Ilic 28:50
not? Because we got a sponsor, Australian ethical has come on board. And they're going to help us pay for this podcast because it's quite expensive. We've got to pay for you know Chris Taylor's wine habit.

Lewis Hobba 29:01
Are they aware that by sponsoring this podcast, they've thrown any possible claim to good ethics that they might have had away?

Dan Ilic 29:10
Now they've listened to our podcast I like the cut of our job and I've looked at them carefully and I to like the cut of their jib. They started in 1986 They've been really busy investing people's money in good things. They stay away from stuff like weapons, human trafficking, fossil fuels, tobacco gambling, you know all the other stuff that we like to make fun of. They stay away from what's left.

Lewis Hobba 29:33
What else is there the hacks money,

Dan Ilic 29:36
podcasts, money media.

Lewis Hobba 29:40
No one's ever lost money investing in a media organization.

Dan Ilic 29:45
So if you looking at your super or your financials and you're thinking gee, I wonder if my money is doing good for the world or doing bad for the world. And you're thinking about moving your money, go check out Australian ethical, and their website is Straight ethical Comdata you. And we're back. You know, one of the stark realities of this budget handed down last night was that energy prices going to pretty much explode 20% increase this year plus a 36% increase next year. That's a 56% increase over the next couple of years. Joining us now to talk about why this is happening is the co founder and CO CEO of amber electric, Dan Adams. Welcome, Dan. Thanks for joining us on irrational fear.

Dan Adams 30:27
Thanks for having me.

Dan Ilic 30:28
It's great to have you now. Why the hell are prices increasing so much? And is it really due to the war in Iraq? Or is it due to Iran? Sorry, Ukraine, that was a long time ago?

Chris Taylor 30:38
Or is it? Or is that mission accomplished?

Dan Ilic 30:42
Or is it a lot more complicated than we think? And all we have time for on this podcast? Like, what why why energy crisis is gonna go crazy over the next two years.

Dan Adams 30:48
Yeah, I mean, basically, the problem was, we are still super dependent on fossil fuels. And we need to get off them as fast as possible, because lots of our power still comes from coal and gas, the sanctions against Russia and mean that coal and gas prices have gone up dramatically. And that's flowing through to our power bills.

Dan Ilic 31:05
But it doesn't make sense because like, you know, Australia is like the third largest exporter of fossil fuels, we export coal, we export gas, like surely surely our energy price, surely we should be have the cheapest energy in the world, right?

Dan Adams 31:16
You would think so. But basically, what we're doing is previous governments and policies, which basically meant that we are exporting lots of our coal and gas overseas, and there isn't enough for our own domestic supply, even though we're a massive exporter of these fossil fuels, which is pretty crazy. When you think about it. I mean, one, we shouldn't be on fossil fuels at all. And to the fact that we've actually exporting more, so much that we don't have enough for ourselves is pretty wild, or is

Dan Ilic 31:45
this something else we can burn? I mean, we've got a lot of empty pie faces around can we

Lewis Hobba 31:49
for another great joke from the Iraq War? And I think that's

Chris Taylor 31:56
retired PiFace references.

Lewis Hobba 31:59
Have you had a stroke and broken up in 2012?

Chris Taylor 32:03
We'll start talking about Sizzla.

Dan Ilic 32:06
Dan, what else can we burn? What

Dan Adams 32:07
else are we gonna burn? I think we need to stop burning stuff is basically the basically the solution. I mean, you can you can you can burn,

Lewis Hobba 32:17
I'm not sure if you'd be paying attention, I don't think the country is gonna go for it.

Dan Adams 32:21
There's a massive nuclear reactor in the in the sky, but called the sun that we should probably start using.

Dan Ilic 32:27
Now you guys at Amber, you give customers access to the wholesale price, which is kind of your whole business model. Given that the wholesale price is gonna go gangbusters over the next two years, your customers scared.

Dan Adams 32:42
So lots of our customers have batteries. And so basically what that means is they were automating their batteries to export into the grid when those prices are spiking. And so they're earning the big, the same prices as those big coal and gas generators are earning for their for their exports, which is pretty cool beans, that households are using solar panel from their roof to compete directly with large coal and gas generators. And while big oil and gas generators are charging, you know, 100 times normal prices for their power during a few hours. Some of the time our customers are earning those 100 times normal prices, which is pretty

Dan Ilic 33:19
cool. That's so that's so cool. Imagine that like imagine like

Lewis Hobba 33:24
it become like a Saudi oil barrel, just the cost of one Tesla battery?

Wendy Zukerman 33:29
Unfortunately, solar in a basement. Floor actually,

Dan Adams 33:35
yeah, completely. I mean, it basically means that as an individual household, you can go in and compete with the big coal gas generators and beat them at their own at their own game. And rather than making off of the big profits, you can do so yourself for getting basically getting paid to support the renewable transition.

Dan Ilic 33:53
Wendy mentioned that the climate industry or the renewable industry did pretty well in the budget. Were you happy with the budget that got brought down yesterday?

Dan Adams 34:01
Yeah, I mean, I think there's some positive steps forward there around support for electric vehicles. And, you know, the rewiring Australia, the $20 billion being invested there over the next earnings over the next 10 years. So there's a big steps forward there. And we're starting to move in the right direction. And, you know, the only way to get out of this energy crisis and this climate crisis that we're facing, is to invest in renewables as fast as we can. So it's exciting to see the world starting and Australia starting to move in the right direction. But obviously, I'd love to

Dan Ilic 34:31
see more. Dan, I'd saw that in the Australian Financial Review this week that you got $13 million from an RMA raising some money there, that's pretty good. Are you going to be burning that to to keep to keep cool? How many doubles? You can do a feasibility

Lewis Hobba 34:49
study of Double J I think that's 4000.

Dan Adams 34:54
It wasn't actually all for being our Ma It was other investors as well, but it is it's exciting because You know, at the moment, we're automating household batteries, but where we are going to start to help people automate electric vehicles as well. So they can charge them the other day when there's lots of cheap solar in the grid. And then in the future, we'll be out actually take power out of your electric vehicle, feed it into the grid, and displace fossil fuels with renewable power sitting in your Eevee. And so we're pretty excited about that. And obviously, a lot of NRMA as members are going to have EVs in the future. So we're excited to work with them to make that happen.

Dan Ilic 35:27
So you can like charge your car when electricity is cheap, and then like, plugged your car into the grid when electricity is expensive and pay off your car.

Lewis Hobba 35:34
It's like if you could convince people who love Bitcoin to get in on this, so buy low, sell high. No. Well,

Dan Ilic 35:42
I think I think those people are into this. You've got to convince Matt Canavan to get into it.

Dan Adams 35:48
Sometimes there's so much renewables in the grid, that the Power Price is actually negative. So we'll pay you to charge your electric vehicle from surplus, renewable power. And then the evening we'll pay you again to displace fossil fuels out of the grid. Oh my god,

Lewis Hobba 36:03
this feels like a scam.

Dan Ilic 36:10
Well, Dan, thank you very much for joining us on irrational fear. Really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. No worries. Well, that is it for the show. Big thank you to Wendy Chris Lewis listed the plugs. What have you got two plugs. Let's start with you. Dan, what you want to plug first.

Dan Adams 36:21
Well, you got a battery. We'd love to have you on board with ambisonic.

Dan Ilic 36:25
Dan wants you to plug in the battery. When do you do anything to plug anything?

Wendy Zukerman 36:31
I just I guess the podcast? Yeah, science versus Yeah. Have a listen. Yeah, on Spotify.

Lewis Hobba 36:37
So quite. It's a really good podcast.

Dan Ilic 36:40
It's one of the biggest podcasts in the world. Yeah.

Chris Taylor 36:42
I'd also like to plug when he's podcast, science versus get into

Dan Ilic 36:48
lists have anything coming to coming to

Lewis Hobba 36:53
show I've got a television show. It is by the time this podcast goes out it will be out now. You can watch it on ABC iView. It's called Australia's best competition competition. With me and my friend Michael hing we enter competitions all around the country to decide which one is Australia's best. Big thank

Dan Ilic 37:11
you to road Mike's Australian ethical our Patreon supporters, Jacob round and everyone who listens Thank you for listening. Really appreciate it. Until next week, there's always going to be scared off goodnight

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