It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Five Questions Over Coffee with Jackie Naghten (ep. 105)
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Episode notes
Who is Jackie?
Jackie Naghten is a successful individual who has explored various businesses and disciplines throughout her life. As she approached her sixties, the idea of retirement loomed, but she was not ready to give up or stop. This led her to start investigating the concept of "unretirement" and how to continue living a fulfilling and purposeful life beyond traditional retirement age. Jackie's own experiences and insights have led her to believe that her journey can inspire and help others who may be facing similar questions about their own future.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Jacki Naghten: Unretirement speaker, change advocate, mentor.
05:48 Risieng number of older workers face discrimination.
07:26 Purpose brings satisfaction, drive to get up.
11:40 Left corporate job, became consultant, discovered skills.
16:30 Adapt to change and stay flexible.
17:26 Connecting with people is key to success.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Connect with Jackie at Linkedin
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
unretirement, retirement, business, portfolio, mentors, entrepreneurs, MD (Managing Director), narrative change, change, career, job searching, personal brand, pivot, reinvent, coaching, mentoring, purpose, human connection, networking, technology, students, boomers, generation gap, communication, newsletter, podcast, careers, workplace, relationships, personal development
SPEAKERS
Jackie Naghten, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:21]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 Questions Over Coffee. I'm absolutely delighted today to be joined by Jackie Norton. Now they always say, if you want to improve, if you want to get better in your business, you should employ people who are better than you, and that's how I feel about my guest today. I am really delighted to be having a conversation with Jackie who has a far more impressive portfolio of of businesses and interests than I have met, and so I'm really, really delighted, Jacqui, you found time in your diary to come and join us for a few minutes. Jacqui is what they call the unretirement speaker. She revealed facts and the reality about retirement in the 2020s for the boomers and how to get to your 100 year lifespan. She mentors and supports entrepreneurs who need to pivot and grow, and if she hasn't got enough going on, she's also the MD of a business whose mission is to change the narrative around the 50 plus woman, to become the invisible increasingly disappear at that age, and she's there to change that. And and that therefore means that what is throughout all of her career, what throughout all of her passion is that of change, changing individuals, changing businesses.
Stuart Webb [00:01:36]:
The need for change, managing change, and working out what is required is absolutely one of the critical bits of business that we need in the world today. So, Jackie, delighted you've spent time to come and spend a few minutes with us. Thank you so much for for being on It's Not Rocket Science, 5 Questions, Over Coffee.
Jackie Naghten [00:01:52]:
Well, thank you very much, Stuart. I hope it isn't rocket science. I hope it's not complicated as that.
Stuart Webb [00:01:59]:
No. Nothing is complicated than that. Look, Jacqui, let's start. You talk about being an unretirement speaker. You talk about, leading them. Tell us, what is it? Who who is it that you're trying to help? I guess it's obvious, but what who is it you're trying to help to understand the these changes that you're bringing to the world?
Jackie Naghten [00:02:15]:
Well, I think like most things in life, when you have any, you know, successful people, across all sorts of businesses and disciplines, and they tell their life story. Usually things happen because of what's happened in their lives, isn't it? You know, so you tend to look at yourself and think, well, this has happened to me. You know, I'm sure it must be happening to other people. So in the case of unretirement, I'm in my sixties now. And as I've approached that time and it sort of comes upon you, you know, you're bumbling along in your forties and next thing great. So you're gonna retire now? And I'm like, no. I don't want to retire. You know, what am I gonna do? And so I started to investigate this whole idea about not retiring because when I really thought about it for myself, I thought, you know, because retirement sounds like giving up, finishing, stopping.
Jackie Naghten [00:03:05]:
It feels like the end of life and I didn't feel like that at all. And I think particularly for women Webb we've had, a lot of time caring responsibilities, you know, juggling careers, suddenly as you get to your sixties, you actually have the time that you've always wanted to do things. So I started to investigate this whole issue of unretirement, which I I came up with. And then I found that actually exists out there and people are talking about on retirement, which is really, it's actually been coined by people who are actually returning to the workforce. So they've retired and then they've spent a couple of years in retirement, had a couple of cruises, done an extension, and then they're bored and they've come back. Because the truth of the matter is that for we boomers, and let's be honest, the boomers, we've been a quite a pioneering generation. We are now this is a final frontier for us, pioneering this move into older age. And, typically, as boomers, we're knowing it like it.
Jackie Naghten [00:04:03]:
So we question it. We're having a different, approach to it. We five a different lived experience, in our lives. I mean, certainly from the female point of view, a lot of us have had careers and brought up families, which, you know, wasn't wasn't didn't happen, you know, 50, 100 years ago. So we're a pioneering generation, and it's all changing. And we can see the rock stars are still rocking. The screenwriters are still writing, the actors are still acting well into their eighties nineties. So it's all changing.
Jackie Naghten [00:04:29]:
And so it's against that backdrop that I speak about on retirement.
Stuart Webb [00:04:33]:
And I think that's a really interesting point, Jacqui, because one of the things you just sort of talked about there is it's the experience that you bring. The the the the the fact of matter is that the the people who five retire often know better than anybody coming through all those things that do work and don't work and how to make that change the most practical, the most effective, as they can be. And and it's often that experience that we lose when people just sort of go Webb go off and do the cruises and spend time at home.
Jackie Naghten [00:05:03]:
Some people are very happily retired. Since you were 16. You can't physically do the job, you know, be a roofer anymore or whatever. And some and some many people are very happy to retire and focus on family and different things. But there's an awful lot of us who don't want to do that, and there's an awful lot of people who can't do that because the retirement, the state pension age is going up. And let's be honest, not many of us can live on that state pension. It's sort of more of a, you know, it's about a £1,000 a month. If you've got 25 years to live in retirement, a £1,000 a month isn't going to give you a very, exciting stimulating life.
Jackie Naghten [00:05:48]:
So, you know, that's the facts of the matter. So we've seen it for some time that our pensioners are going back into the workforce to supplement their income. But places like B&Q, you know, have taken on older people with all their experience, etcetera. But it's actually a much bigger issue now, and we're going to have by, I think, Webb about 50, 50% of the workforce is going to be over 50. Mhmm. And so there's a couple of things going on. First of all, there's a thing for people personally, what they want to do in it the birth rate's dropping, and they're suddenly waking up to the fact they might need older people. But meanwhile, what we know is 50 plus people are finding it incredibly difficult to get back into the workforce because there is a generational, sexist, a generational ageism going on, which is the last frontier of sort of, equality in the workplace, which is something that we at noon, with my other hat on, are working on.
Jackie Naghten [00:06:44]:
So, you know, my unretirement interest and speaking about unretirement kind of has a very nice crossover with the the work I do at noon, which is all about the 50 plus women who are very keen to get back to work and think about what they're going to do as they pivot in the midlife.
Stuart Webb [00:07:00]:
And I'm so glad you brought noon in because I was about to ask, of course, what is what is noon? And so therefore, let's let's move on to sort of what it is therefore then that you've seen people who are trying to sort of cope with this on retirement. You've mentioned a couple of times people who've retired and it's not for them, so they've gone back to work. What is it that you you are trying to do to help them with that with that transition? How do you how do you help people to understand whether or not retirement is right for them?
Jackie Naghten [00:07:26]:
Well, I think, I think what we have to think about is very simple. It's what gets you out of bed in the middle? What gets you out of bed in the morning? And what doesn't get me out of bed in the morning is just thinking, oh, I'm going to see some friends for lunch and I'll maybe go to the gym later. I mean, I'm not saying that's not nice to do, but I I it's lacking a sort of purpose, a sort of satisfaction. That's what I found, you know, because I I did have a period of time when I had cancer and that enforced me to have a a year off. And I and and and while you're not very Webb, obviously, I was so frustrated because I couldn't do anything. You know, I hadn't got any point, you know, I couldn't work and all these things. And so I'm just somebody, and there's lots of us around who just like like working. I mean, lots of people work in volunteer positions because they just want to have a purpose.
Jackie Naghten [00:08:11]:
And what we know, I think it's Sigmund Freud who said, you know, there's 2 main things in life out of all of this is love and work, which is really purpose and human connection. And that, you know, that's what working can give you and that's what we as humans, you know, on the whole keeps us going. So, you know, when I say work, it doesn't necessarily have to be financially rewarding work. It could be all sorts of things, but it's finding purpose. And I think that's where people quite often need help. Because as we all know, when we try and write about ourself market, it's very difficult doing that yourself. It's much more helpful if you do it with somebody else who can interpret how you are. And that's where coaching or mentoring comes in because, I can work with people, and they they may be let's say they've been an accountant for 20, 30 years.
Jackie Naghten [00:09:00]:
All they can think about is, like, well, I'm very good with numbers. I can do accountancy, but I don't want to do it anymore. And it's very difficult for them to think, what are the other possibilities. So what I'm very good at is thinking creatively with people about the other skills and strengths that they might have that could take them in a different direction.
Stuart Webb [00:09:17]:
Takes us in so many directions actually. So I think you're absolutely right. The the meaningful connections is hugely important. I think biologists are now beginning to discuss or, you know, you you hear in the media that, loneliness can be the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And Having those meaningful connections can extend your lifespan.
Jackie Naghten [00:09:35]:
I mean, I have to say, I have looked into an article about that. It's a slightly typically, as as you can imagine, typically, a sort of convoluted piece of data when you, you know, get underneath it because it it's not that simple, but loneliness is is an epidemic, you know. And as we live longer I mean, I'm widowed myself. As we live longer, divorce a lot of people are getting divorced in their fifties and sixties because they're thinking, if they're living till they're five and they have a non satisfactory relationship, they're actually getting divorced in their sixties, which is another reason why people often need to work because the financial pots got smaller, etcetera, etcetera. And also for women who were divorced and on their own, typically men tend to find another partner, women perhaps not. They want to go to work or they might not have worked for 10, 15 years. And so, you know, and they have no idea. You know, jobs have changed.
Jackie Naghten [00:10:26]:
The workplace has changed tremendously. And and so it's a little bit scary for, people when they're older to go back into, but they're quite keen to have that connection and to have some purpose.
Stuart Webb [00:10:38]:
So so, Jackie, if we if we if we now look at what how people can get in contact with you, I think I think you've given us your LinkedIn, your LinkedIn, and and the the Noon, which is the organization. Are there are there things that they'll find there that could be helping them to understand this transition that you're talking to people about?
Jackie Naghten [00:11:05]:
Well, certainly at noon, we have a lot of resources on there. We cover divorce, bereavement, cancer, job searching, all of those sorts of things. And there's lots of uplifting stories about, you know, all this because what we learn from in life is stories and it's always interesting to hear somebody else's Stuart. Yeah. And particularly if you're going through a tough time in your life, so for myself, I've got a you know, my story was my husband was diagnosed with a very with a terminal illness when I was 42. And I had to pivot. I had to change everything in my life. My life literally went up in the air, and I had to reinvent myself.
Jackie Naghten [00:11:40]:
I had to give up my corporate job. I went out into the world and became a consultant just based on networking really, you know, without any plan or thought. And so I've learned to market myself. I learned that I had skills I didn't realize I had, and this is I think the point of coaching, etcetera, you know, where you can you've actually got skills you don't realize you have because you think all you can do is add up numbers if, you know, do a balance sheet in accountancy. But, actually, you've got loads of other skills as well. And, actually, these are leading, problem solving, these sorts of skills, which you can apply to all sorts of things. So, you know, if you go to Noon you can find out about the Midlife Women. If you just come to my LinkedIn and connect with me then, I'm more than happy to, you know, I get all sorts of people who I meet, day to day and for various speaking engagements approaching me saying, can you help with this? Can you help with that? Because I've also worked with a lot of entrepreneurs and it's, you know, whether it's a business or a person, quite often a business falters and stutters and it might need to be reinvented or might need to take a different turn.
Jackie Naghten [00:12:49]:
And again, when you're the founder and the owner, it's quite difficult working that out. You need someone from outside to help you work that through.
Stuart Webb [00:12:57]:
Yes. Jackie, is is there a is there a a book or or course that, that really sort of helped you to understand how the unretirement world is beginning to become the new the new retire the the new work?
Jackie Naghten [00:13:13]:
Well, there's a there's a couple of things. I mean, we are, we are shortly going to be running courses at noon, about this. We're working on those at the Moment. I've got a book here which I came across or designing and I came across this about 10 years ago. I mean, that's an old version there. And it was written by 2 guys in, I think it's Stanford University in America, Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. And it absolutely fascinated me because I'm a brand person. And so because my background is retail and consumer brands.
Jackie Naghten [00:13:47]:
And, when you when you talk about brands, you're talking about brands have a sort of personality and they have values, etcetera. And what this book did, it actually looked to people as if they were brands. And so it really resonated with me. Because, actually, these days, people, you know, there's lots of chat about, you know, people talk about their personal brand. And your personal brand is just how you come how you present to the world and what your values are and what you can, you know, what you can how you can help people with. And so I would say designing your life, was all about looking at people that felt they were a square peg in a round hole, and how they could they thought just because they were interested, for example, one of the founders, the writers here. I mean, he was always as a little boy interested in marine biology. He became a marine biologist.
Jackie Naghten [00:14:37]:
So when he was about 35, he suddenly thought, I'm just not really that in this. I don't know why he's actually interested in something completely, something completely different. And quite honest, I mean, I when I was at school, I was good at languages. They said I should work in the foreign office. I would have absolutely useless as a civil servant because those are the sort of boxes, you know, we get put in boxes. And I still feel over today, the recruitment industry puts us in boxes whereas actually people have often have lots of other sides to them. So I would very much recommend that. And I would also recommend just, you know, going, if you're interested to pursue, reviewing your your your opportunities in life is to find a coach or a mentor.
Jackie Naghten [00:15:17]:
There's lots of, you know, TED Talks, for example, are an absolutely fantastic resource, which is all about telling stories about how people have embraced change and changed things. And they're very inspirational. You know? So, yeah, that would be what I would say, you know, go out. Main thing is go out into the world and connect with people. You know, I think you learn a lot by chatting to other people.
Stuart Webb [00:15:39]:
I I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with more. Look, Jackie, I kept you talking for about the last 15, 20 minutes, asking you all sorts of silly questions but there must be one question that you're thinking, well I wish you would get on to this subject. So this is my opportunity to get you to say what is the question that you would like me to have asked. Well, obviously, then when I've, got you to ask the question, you better answer it. So what's that question you would like me to have asked?
Jackie Naghten [00:16:09]:
I suppose, the question I would like you to have asked, or that I think is a good question to ask anybody, as Webb as what has been the biggest, what has made the biggest impact in your life, you know, to bring you to where you are today to to today?
Stuart Webb [00:16:25]:
That's a very good question. So so what has been that biggest impact?
Jackie Naghten [00:16:30]:
Well, I think the biggest impact is really goes back to that story I just told of when my husband was diagnosed with a with a with a illness, which is, that you never know what's around the corner. Mhmm. So, you know, I always say my big piece of advice to my well, to my kids and to anybody who gets in a bit of a twiddle and a twaddle with things is to say, have a plan, the plan can change. You know, because people get But what's a common thread through all of that? It's about change and pivoting. But what's a common thread through all of that? It's about change and pivoting. You know, either pivoting, responding to outside outside influences because something, you know, you've got divorced, you you've got cancer, whatever happened, you know, you've got a sick child, and you have to change and rethink what you're doing, or because you want to. You want something different. You want to be reenergized and do something different.
Jackie Naghten [00:17:26]:
So I think the most important thing is to realize that you, you know, you you can't that that life won't be as you plan. Have a plan, the plan can change and go out and connect, you know, people are the biggest resource that's free out there that you can connect with and just, you know, you might I mean, I'm an you know, we're probably Stuart Natural Connectors. We're doing this sort of stuff, you know, we are sort of probably I'm certainly myself an extrovert. It's not easy for everybody. Not everybody's like that, but certainly if you're not somebody and and a lot of people think, oh, networking, you know, oh, that's a load of old you know? But actually, whether you wanna call it connecting or meet networking, connecting, meeting people, for me your fellow humans are your biggest resort to make change. And, you know, you you you you can't do any any and it's free, you know, to a certain extent. You know, it might cost you a cup of coffee or some of your five. But I've never had a wasted meeting with anybody in my five.
Jackie Naghten [00:18:23]:
And you always learn something. So, you know, that's what I would really encourage people to do. I don't think people realize how, how much that can impact your life.
Stuart Webb [00:18:31]:
I think it was a brilliant thing to say and and certainly something that I'm passing on to a number of the I do some work with some students and I do with them, and I'd give them something very similar, which is, you know, if someone if someone suggests a meeting, take the meeting, you don't know what's gonna happen. You might look at it and think, well, that would be a waste of my time, but you have no idea where it's going, who they might meet,
Jackie Naghten [00:18:54]:
who they might introduce. You never know. Always learn something, and I've learned, you know, probably when I was younger, I was a bit more judgmental, you know, and I've really, really learned. And that's the one thing about older age, you get a bit more wisdom and, you have hindsight. And I would say, I don't think I've ever had a wasted meeting. Because even if you don't get the outcome from the meeting that you wanted, you people. And it's a 6 degrees of separation. You know, if all somebody you've got in common somewhere, I find it quite amazing.
Jackie Naghten [00:19:28]:
And having been on this planet now for such a long time, and recently gone back out into the world, the world of entrepreneurs and founders, I've just been talking to somebody who has a similar background to me in corp you know, I've done corporate finance and productivity. And of course, we have you know, there's all these people we have in common. It just never ceases to fascinate me. And I think your point you make about your students, obviously, the younger generation growing up in a different digital five. And I just worry for that generation sometimes. Do they realize because they do everything on technology, maybe even on Zoom, I still would rather I mean, this is lovely to do this, but it's it's wonderful to meet people in person. It is a different experience. And I think it's really important that young people understand the power of connection, not just on a WhatsApp and through, you know, all this.
Jackie Naghten [00:20:13]:
You know, my my my daughters won't even take phone calls. They don't like talking on the phone. You know, it's gotta be all this. So, you know, I I do worry for the younger generation. I would think it's really important that we make sure that they do understand the power of connection.
Stuart Webb [00:20:25]:
I wonder if we could have another 2 and a half hours on that subject. So I better close this down before we do because I know that's something that I worry a lot about working
Jackie Naghten [00:20:34]:
with you. I think all of us all of us boomers, I mean, if my daughters call me that's so boomer, you know, because I've got a I've got a desk covered in paper because I write notes with a pen, and they get all of that. Such a and then she took a picture of it and said, that's such a boomer desk because I've got paper and pens on it, you know, and they don't have anything. So I think our husbands are very worried about the the young you know, they're they're they're all doing fantastically well, but there were just certain aspects that you do worry. You know?
Stuart Webb [00:21:02]:
I am I am very concerned at the moment about a number of people I meet that don't do the don't when I say to them, have you chatted to them about that? They go, yes. Yes. And I go, well, what did they say? And they said, well, Webb didn't say anything because we did it over text. And my immediate response is never ever managed to resolve any dispute
Jackie Naghten [00:21:18]:
No.
Stuart Webb [00:21:19]:
Resolution, any negotiation over went well when you were doing emails and texts. They always needed something to
Jackie Naghten [00:21:25]:
put the coffee in the wrong place. It's completely a different statement. You know? I mean, how I mean, I have this with my best friend all the time. You know? She doesn't pay attention when she's reading, and you you can just so misinterpret the text. You know, it just doesn't and certainly not for business.
Stuart Webb [00:21:40]:
I'm gonna bring this to an end before we alienate half of the young people that Five persuaded to listen to this podcast because they need to. Jackie, it's been an absolute joy to spend time with you. I really appreciate you making a few minutes to speak with us. I'm just gonna put on the screen now the link to our newsletter. Now if you want to get on to the mailing list Webb you will get an email from me, which actually says who's coming up to talk to us on these, on these LinkedIn five and podcasts so that you get notification and you can actually think about whether or not you want to link with them or spend any time thinking about questions you'd like to put them. Go to this this URL, which is on the screen at the moment, httpscolonforward/forward/ link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter. And, also, you will then get subscribed to the podcast when it gets released, as a second five of the cherry Webb you can listen to all of this again and rewind and listen to it as many times as you want because I think some of the stuff that Jackie has given us today are absolute nuggets of information.
Stuart Webb [00:22:53]:
They're really applicable to a number of, of the audience. Jackie, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Really appreciate you spending
Jackie Naghten [00:23:00]:
My pleasure. And just just and just, sort of just on the point about the younger generation, I do work with a lot of, because I have young children myself. I work with a lot of young people who are often stuck in their twenties as to what they're gonna do. So I'm more than happy to talk to anybody about, you know, any any young people out there who are who are stuck and not sure which way to go. More than happy to have conversation.
Stuart Webb [00:23:21]:
Jackie, I know so many people who would take you up on that. I'm gonna point you in your direction. Thank you so much for spending some time. I know how valuable your time is because when you just talked about as much as you're doing, you must must try and cram in as much as you can. So thank you for a few minutes of your time. Really appreciate you you being with us.
Jackie Naghten [00:23:39]:
Well, thanks for the invitation, Stuart. It's been a pleasure.
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