It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee

Five Questions Over Coffee with Julie Guegan (ep. 111)

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Episode notes

Who is Julie?

Julie Guegan has spent the last two decades dedicated to understanding and promoting sophisticated collaboration. She has observed the challenges and complexities that arise when genuine collaboration is required, and has worked to navigate and overcome them. With a deep understanding of human nature and culture, Julie has led the way in finding solutions for effective collaboration, drawing on her own experiences in marriage as an example of the difficulties that can arise when multiple individuals come together. Her expertise and dedication have made her a leading figure in the field of collaboration.

Key Takeaways

00:00 20 years consulting led to founding Global Collaboration Institute.

04:33 Embrace diversity for collaborative and impactful solutions.

09:35 Revelation of nature's strength prompts relearning behavior.

11:59 Encourage collaboration, step out of comfort zone.

14:54 Avoid doubts, pioneer, and create global collaboration.

20:02 Anna awakened me to societal inferiority complex.

22:20 Julie, pursuit of dream through listening, innovation.

28:06 Julie promotes positive cultural change and collaboration.

29:48 Follow Julie, subscribe to the newsletter. Exciting guests.Valuable Free Resource or Action

Some free resources at https://tinyurl.com/3p8pnpnz

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Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

global collaboration, books, citizen empowerment, participatory democracy, systems dynamic theory, Global Collaboration Institute, diverse perspectives, collaboration framework, innovation, diversity, storytelling techniques, well-being, empathy, change, nature, European dream, humility, curiosity, Alfred Adler, human behavior, inferiority complex, youth, COVID-19 pandemic, meta collaboration framework, social needs, humanistic values

SPEAKERS

Julie Geugan, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:19]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions over coffee. This is my coffee which I have in front of me. I know Julie has a drink with her as well, and I'd like to welcome Julie Gegan who is a fellow of the Royal Society of Arts and a recipient of 2 European Commission Awards and she's really passionate about citizen empowerment and participatory democracy and collaboration, and she's got work, which has been enriched by systems dynamic theory to do that. We're gonna have a really fascinating discussion about how she's doing this and things she's written about it. And, Julia, I'm really delighted to welcome to it's not rocket science, 5 questions over coffee. Thank you for making the time.

Julie Guegan [00:01:02]:

Thank you so much, Strat. And I will warn you that maybe my my dog will sparkle, with with Bobby during the conversation, but, you know, it's my dog. It's fine. And my cats my cat also may appear, so you know.

Stuart Webb [00:01:15]:

Okay. We we have had dogs. We have had cats. We have had many interruptions during these and they're always delightful. I'm always pleased to see them come in and say hello, so that's really wonderful. Judy, tell us a little bit more about, you know, the people you help in terms of the the collaborative processes and the and the the methodologies you use to to enable that.

Julie Guegan [00:01:35]:

Mhmm. Thank you so much. So over the past 20 years, I, I led the journey, to, understand the conditions for collaboration, but sophisticated collaboration. When faced with the need to collaborate, things get tricky. And we could see that over the past years when we face complex issues that require genuine collaboration. It's like we forget everything about human nature, culture, and how to navigate the complexity of collaboration. You know, just being married is difficult with 2 people. So imagine when you have more people around the table.

Julie Guegan [00:02:23]:

And so over the past 20 years, I had the great chance to contribute to the European project as a consultant and to identify, to learn from all my experience, the critical ingredients, what was needed to apply collaboration when collaboration is must needed. As an outcome of, of this, 20 years adventure, I created the Global Collaboration Institute a year ago. For this, I gathered experts from all over the globe in different disciplines, different areas, but also, ways of loving and thinking. So real diverse diversity in practice, people that don't necessarily think the same as me. And we started to, work on the basis of my findings and to elaborate a framework that can be applied in any system, any project to amplify its potential and to, make sure that the system in itself would, would be in calm, in well-being. And so having the condition to catalyze innovation. So that's the result of this work and that's the reason why I'm here today with you to explain you a little bit, what is this main outcome. It is in a book, in a vision, and I'm happy to to answer your questions, Charles, about

Stuart Webb [00:03:58]:

this. Julie, I think you said one thing there which is really critical, and that's something that I think a lot of the the people you work with have tried to do. They've tried to find ways to collaborate but as you said, sometimes you need to gather people around you who are different, who don't think the same as you and that's a critical and key aspect of of ensuring collaboration actually succeeds. What what what can you share us in terms of insights into into how that helps if people have tried collaborations or they've tried ways of sort of getting diversity, but they failed because they haven't recognized that as one of their key problems.

Julie Guegan [00:04:33]:

You you you have so many examples, you know, in our history where we embarked into main initiatives without taking the cultural diversity into account. Actually, in collaboration, diversity unites us. You don't do collaboration if you already have the answers to your question, if you already have the a position, if you prefer. So when you enter collaboration and when, in this case, we are talking about big dreams in a way. We are talking about solving the most impossible problems of our times because when collaboration is actually needed, it means that you cannot solve the problem yourself alone. So it means that the problem is too big for you. And so the dream is also too big. And that's why you have to take into account this diversity within the room because this diversity is the key to your solutions.

Julie Guegan [00:05:32]:

And what you need to, to do to embark people in this collaboration journey, taking account their different ways of thinking but also loving. Because the starting point is we all have a positive intention toward this world. We all have it. And following all my experience and my empirical research where I went as far as I could into the periphery, I started to listen attentively to our stakeholders. If we prefer if we are serious about achieving global collaboration that is empowering people all over the world to, to to to if you prefer to embrace the complex issues we face such as climate change or mobility, general, economy, any topic. You have to, equip them. You have to prepare them to the shock and the agony that diversity will represent.

Stuart Webb [00:06:38]:

I think that's a really interesting sec thing you said. It is a shock. It is not it is not easy. It's not comfortable.

Julie Guegan [00:06:47]:

It's absolutely not comfortable. But to solve our issues, I said it at the beginning, you need well-being. You need calm. Because to lead to harmony, people will need to feel calm. They will need to feel that they master. And this is why it's so important our role at the Global Collaboration Institute to equip people for sophisticated collaboration. So that in this collaboration, you won't burn out. You will feel well along the journey and you will master, and this is how you will make impossible possible.

Stuart Webb [00:07:27]:

Brilliant. Brilliant.

Julie Guegan [00:07:28]:

Because he will be like, oh, sorry. I could I told you I could talk during hours.

Stuart Webb [00:07:33]:

No. Please carry on. Please carry on.

Julie Guegan [00:07:37]:

It's just as part of my journey, I developed a number of tools and storytelling techniques and things like this, and it's very, easy for people to forget about, this diversity aspect and to get stuck when they are shocked, Right? When they are shocked by others' view on the world, and and they wait to love. It's it's it's the basis. You know? It's NLP. I I don't know if you know a little bit about NLP. Everyone is okay. That's how you start a collaboration journey. Everyone. What you need to understand is in I mean, when you need to develop is empathy.

Julie Guegan [00:08:22]:

Your ability to listen to what feels wrong. Yeah. And well, it's it's just that as part of the the storytelling techniques, I, I I I, for instance, feed people with narratives, like the narrative of the eagle. You know? The eagle that takes distance on the dream, that takes distance on the project. Because if you put too much pressure on yourself, you increase the risk of being shocked. Because the more you want a project to succeed, the more you want something impossible to become possible, the more you increase the pressure on the show on your shoulder and the less competent you will be to address it. So it's very important that people, you know, visualize themselves as animal, and I use the laws of nature because we need to complete to contemplate nature when nature shows us that it's far more complex than we thought it was because, you know, women beings, we have this inferiority complex toward nature. We always need to find the ways to control it.

Julie Guegan [00:09:35]:

And now that we are faced with this, terrible, you know, revelation that nature is stronger than us, we seem even more lost and and and it's like people lose their everything they learned. You know? They panic and, it's like we have to to relearn everything, you know, about what is a good behavior, what is wrong about our beliefs. We we are like turtles. You know, I mentioned the eagle that needs to take distance and has strategies to make sure the dream at the end of the day will work because there's no other choice. Not the change is happening. Anyway, the question is, do we want this change to be like the way we want it? Do we let this change, you know, happen without us? And I think we all have in our world the tools, the competencies, you know, everything we need to, to make the right, benevolent change happen for this world. So let's do it. You know? And that's why also when I started with my new European dream for a caring culture and innovation and and hope and faith because we've never needed more hope than today.

Julie Guegan [00:11:07]:

And this, you know, knowing that, yes, we can. Of course, we can. You know? We have everything. And and and when I started, you know, the only reason I could wake up every day with this huge dream of on my shoulder, you know, the turtle with this huge burden of this huge dream that, yes, we can do it. The only reason why I could keep going is because I knew there were people in this world like you. People in this world that have fantastic expertise, they can bring to the table so that we make happen what we thought was impossible. And so I'm I'm naming this force, if you prefer, the force for good.

Stuart Webb [00:11:59]:

Yes. Yes. Is there a is there a particular thing that you would like people to is there, you know, one piece of advice that you could leave? And I I'm gonna put up at this stage, your LinkedIn profile, which I will I will include in the in the show notes for the episode because I think it's important that people can follow what you're doing with with with your collaboration institute. But but is there one piece of advice? You talked a little bit about sort of storytelling techniques. You've talked about some of the techniques you've used to help people sort of understand how collaboration can help them move their business, their personal life forward. Is there one piece of advice that you would leave them with to enable them to sort of, today, start taking that approach, move their collaboration forward in a way which, yes, will make them uncomfortable, will help them, to to move out of their comfort zone, but will enable them to sort of move forward, that they don't need a lot of time to learn?

Julie Guegan [00:12:57]:

Mhmm. There are you have to know, I wrote, probably one article per day in, 3 years on my blog, which is now closed because it was mainly for my experience, the empirical research, to understand, as I said, the conditions for global collaboration. From there, we have this framework, structural and behavioral framework. The pillars, if you prefer, of collaboration contain 11 ingredients, and there is this behavioral framework that is the process, to move from impossible to mission possible. As part of all these these resources that that we created, I'm thinking about one very simple thing that people can do when they have so many years. So I'm thinking about 1 in particular, but There are 3 mistakes that people do when they have a big dream. The first one is, lack of humility. No.

Julie Guegan [00:14:10]:

Yep. It's, the second one is, lack of curiosity. So you say, you know, the being ignorant. You have to be like an unborn. You, when you enter collaboration, you have to forget everything you know, basically. Because if you really want to have the power of collaboration on the table, you have to forget where you come from or your beliefs or your bias or your assumptions because you need to be at the disposal of the crowd because collaboration is 1 plus 1 equals an infinite number of possibilities. But for this, you need to forget all about yourself. You need to be unborn.

Julie Guegan [00:14:54]:

The third mistake is to be overwhelmed by doubts Because along the journey, you will be like a scoot. It's a friend, Stefan Baigi, who taught me about this, that when you are pioneer and, of course, Global Collaboration Institute is pioneering a new well, it's like we open the door to next generation because we saw that the system was becoming absurd and change needed to happen whether we want it or not. And so we opened the door to make it familiar for all generations that there is a possibility that one day global collaboration will happen with a maximum of people around the globe ready, equipped to solve all the complex issues we face in all the areas because we see there is crisis after crisis The or in all the domain, in all the areas, we need to change the rules of the game. So we opened this door and we invented these frameworks. So, really, one resource I would say is to face these 3 mistakes. So lack of curiosity, lack of humility, and the the the feeling of, you know, of being overwhelmed by doubts. Contemplation contemplation, looking for the signs that you are doing the right things, Being as much as you can unborn unborn, it's it's really like the second life. You know? You when you prepared your first life, and you spend your first life preparing the second life.

Julie Guegan [00:16:45]:

So it's we need this civilization to prepare its second life. So we need to look at it like this. So far we have been quite individualistic. We have been quite self centered. You say comfort, over our comfort. We need to accept the stretching. We need to accept that we need to unlearn everything we learned because now we have a mission all together and it is to prepare a better world for the next generation.

Stuart Webb [00:17:23]:

Yes. Yes.

Julie Guegan [00:17:25]:

Does it make sense to you?

Stuart Webb [00:17:27]:

It does. It does. And and you're right that that that that often these these big initiatives don't yield results for many years, but that shouldn't put us off from actually looking for how to make that I mean, we talk about the sustainability that the world needs to adopt at the moment and there's no point in pertaining that sustainability is to benefit the people who implement the change now. It's to it's to benefit generations to come, and we need to have that ability to look long term instead of in quarters years to look in terms of decades so that people can see the approach beginning to take through in 5, 10, 15 years from now. Is there is there one, it was there one type one thing or a a series of things which brought you a a course book or experience that brought you to your understanding that these things need to be addressed and started your your thinking about this, this this this big vision about collaboration?

Julie Guegan [00:18:35]:

Yeah. Thank you for for asking this question because I I did an academic research, followed by empirical research. I mean, everything in the same time, actually. I read tons of books, because it's it's a very serious journey. You know? You don't come unequipped to a dream like this. Right? The the the key to me to the main door has been Alfred Adler. Alfred Adler was an Austrian philosopher who lived at the same time, as But, he was far less notorious. Adler.

Julie Guegan [00:19:19]:

Do you know Adler, Stuart? No. Well, you see, it's not very notorious. But when I read it and I read all his books, I got this shock because you know what he says basically, but it's awful to summarize the thoughts of someone like him. What he says is that human beings have a very deep inferiority complex toward nature. Mhmm. And this is translated by behaviors of superiority complex. We need to control nature. We don't like the unpredictability of nature, the uncertainty.

Julie Guegan [00:20:02]:

Right? And so Anna actually wake woke me up to a reality which I knew already that we had a problem with our inferiority complex that were initiated in number of behaviors inside our society. But he equips me on how to solve that main huge hurdle. It's a bit like I mean, I will I will make a parallel resume. You know, it's also when you when he tells you that the first thing you need to master is your dark side, it means you human beings, you are a bunch of monsters. So when you wake up in the morning instead of thinking that you are god, do your best to calm down the monster within you because when times become complicated, it should be your first task right in the morning. Master the devil within you because it's big and it's gonna be very big as times will gonna be tougher and tougher in particular for the western world because I think and that that's it's part of all the things I learned because because as you mentioned when you started journey with a dream like this, like Global Collaborations 3 years ago, I could not expect learning so much. Can you imagine the number of people I met from my little office at home? The conversation I had with people from all over the globe, living very different lives as me, having different dreams, etcetera, it's incredible. When when I just want everybody to join this journey now.

Stuart Webb [00:21:56]:

Yes. Yes. The passion is important. And and that leads me to my final question for you, Julie, and that is there must be one question that you think I haven't yet asked and that I should ask in order to better understand how collaboration is gonna help us all move forward. So what's the question I should have asked? And, obviously, once you've asked that question, you're the best person to answer it. So what is that question?

Julie Guegan [00:22:20]:

It's your dream, Julie. How is your dream going? You know? I shared a dream 3 years ago for it was a script I wrote for the European Commission. It was full of wisdom from coming from all my, conversation I had with people from all over the globe during 2 years, during the COVID. And, and, basically, I had to pursue the script on my own. And this is how I understood that we cannot change we cannot make the right change if we don't listen to the peripheries because it's at the center, that we find the comfort in our current system, in the status quo. So I had to go, as I say, far as far as I could in the peripheries to listen to people, to, because it is them who have the solutions to the problems that they face. You know, it it's a bit like the water crisis. You solve it with people that suffer from the water crisis and have to be innovative to find solutions, you know, to find water every day.

Stuart Webb [00:23:32]:

Yes.

Julie Guegan [00:23:34]:

And we don't do that. We don't really have this culture of going it's our end. We were saying that the solution, they lie in the periphery. We don't have this culture. So I had to do it myself. I I had to take all the risks if you prefer alone. But so how is my dream after 3 years? It's very promising. Now we are asked from leaders, worldwide leaders, to make presentation about the meta collaboration behavior and structural framework.

Julie Guegan [00:24:04]:

It's unbelievable that experts from around the globe seem to validate the framework. I mean, we spent a year focusing on, making labs, making experiments, showing the benefits of our framework in domains like education, health, activism, economy, etcetera. The the the outcomes we get surpass really surpass our expectations. Because as I said, at first, we thought we will ensure the well-being of each amplified by the collective. So we will invest in your potential to art with the meta collaboration framework, we'll add it to you and instead of having a cap on your head that makes it impossible for you to achieve a new dream, we we instead of the cap, we give you, you know, all the things you needed. The we we fill it, you know, with all the ingredients that you need to fill well, find harmony, and at the end of the day, co create. Got it. And so from there, we understood that actually that one of the benefit is to catalyze any innovation when you make a tea bag.

Julie Guegan [00:25:25]:

But you you tell me when I have to stop. But meta collaboration is basically a tea bag, and you respect the ceremony of the tea because it's very important. But you you put a tea bag in a in a in a cup of water and you see what it will happen what what will happen. You just follow. You observe. You are a researcher. You observe. And and we saw how bubbling people become.

Julie Guegan [00:25:50]:

They're they have a wall in front of them. It's impossible. We'll never get there. You put the key bag and it becomes like, how we could do that? And, yes, we were not doing that, and and it's, like, incredible. It's incredible to see. It's it's magic. Because nowadays, I think people are overwhelmed with negativity. They don't they don't have hope.

Julie Guegan [00:26:17]:

I mean and and why did I start also? Because I realized during the COVID times that the first victims to a global pandemic was our youth because we forgot, completely forgot about the social needs of our youth during this COVID time. You know? Because they don't vote. Yes. Yes. They don't vote. They they don't have a voice. And so we we we set up I mean, it's it's not as as clear as that, but I think those would what have privilege. And, this was very clear for me, during these COVID times.

Julie Guegan [00:26:55]:

And so, yes, the reason why I just couldn't hold myself, you know, and I had to open the door to my sons because we have the promise of a world that is worse. I can't accept this even one second. When I when I meet people in, my conversation in Iran, etcetera, when they tell me Europe is dead, I wanna tell them it's the opposite because it's our humanistic values. It's our humanistic values and it's, I I remember it's Emmanuel Dweiss. In one of my conversations in together, Hansan, during the COVID tag, she reminded me of this humanistic values of Europe. And and and never forget the the common values we have in Europe and and and why I think the the the promising future will come from Europe.

Stuart Webb [00:28:06]:

Julie, I think disturbing culture. Julie, we've gotta draw it on that because that I think it's a brilliant way to end this on a note which is positive, remembering that as humans, we can address these issues if we want to. So often we don't want to, so we need to we need to find ways of working with each other, supporting each other, and thinking for the future, not just for today, rather than thinking just about what we get from getting out of and we have difficulties we need to get through today, but we definitely need to get through to the future. We definitely need to collaborate in order to bring that bright future. Julie, thank you for spending a few minutes with us talking about this. It's it's a fascinating subject. I I I'm gonna I'm gonna draw it and and really encourage people, please go follow Julie at linkedin, dot com. She's Julie Guegan at 189-5a21.

Stuart Webb [00:29:03]:

You'll find her if you look for her. There's not many people out there with quite such a profile as Julie. Please follow her. Please look at some of the stuff that she's doing. She's doing some really interesting things. She has she has that blog that she's talked about. She has written a book, which

Julie Guegan [00:29:19]:

is Yeah. The blog is closed, but yeah. Sorry, Scott. I can, I can invite people to to read my book, the following one, which is the vision? It's called Europe, the Next Chapter, a story of collective innovation, and the second book is about, to get released. It's it's about all the experience we led, all over the globe with the meta collaboration framework, during the past year and what we learned about the framework.

Stuart Webb [00:29:48]:

Julie has some brilliant thoughts. Please follow her and and and look out for those books. And and and, you know, also following her, please subscribe to the newsletter so that you can get notification of when we have such fantastic hosts coming up on the podcast. If you go to, link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter, that's a link Dot the complete approach dotco.ukforward/newsletter. That will take you to a form you fill in, and you will get notified every couple of weeks with who's coming up on the podcast so that you can join in and ask questions and listen to some of the wisdom that you get from such a really interesting guest like Julie. Julie, thank you so much, for spending just a few minutes with us, and I really appreciate you giving us such such wisdom, so much, so much to pack in and I I really look forward to, catching up when that second book is out, and we'll talk more about what that book is telling us about global collaboration.

Julie Guegan [00:30:49]:

Thank you so much, Strat.

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